Talk:Mohammad-Hossein Shahriar

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Most entries in E\aezgsdxfgcmnhjm@?~ @?.;l,kmjnuhbgvtfcrdxenglish version of Wikipedia are reliable materials written by unbiased contributors. However the entry on Mohammed Hossein Shahriar seems to be rather biased in ignoring his works and contributions both to Azerbaijani and Farsi literature. Instead this short entry in Wikipedia is pointing to his possible addiction and guessing his political views !?

So fix it. RickK 06:05, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Shahriar was himself an iranian nationalist. He wrote his poem in farsi as well as in turkic language. I beleive there is more Probably that the azeri-nationalist (the Pan-turks) affront him.... 141.2.247.138

File:Shahriyar - Tabrizu.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Name in Azerbaijani

@HistoryofIran: Hey, are you okay with me adding Azerbaijani version of his name? Wanted to confirm, so we don't get into conflict later. Why I think Azerbaijani name should be available? Because his most important and well-known works are in Azerbaijani and he has served the Azerbaijani literature more than he did Persian. If you don't agree, I'd be happy to hear your opinion on why and we can peacefully talk about it. CuriousGolden (talk)

Iranian Azerbaijani

Holly! There is so much invective on this page. Look, if you two can't interact with each other productively, then don't. Use a dispute resolution request like 3rd opinion or an RfC. Talking to each other this way is not in any way acceptable. El_C 21:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: I see that you have reverted multiple changes in history of this article by people who tried to change "Iranian" to "Iranian Azerbaijani". May I ask you why you think this change is considered "nationalistic POV pushing", so I can avoid getting my changes reverted by you and your friends. Please stop obsessing over me. You literally attempted to report me for "stalking you" not so long ago, quite ironic. Iranian Azerbaijani is not a nationality. What do you mean by friends? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC) @HistoryofIran: Are you okay? I wanted to do a change here and noticed that you reverted people's changes and wanted to talk to you before adding my change. If you think people editing pages that you have edited before is obsession, then you have a problem, the world doesn't revolve around you. Now moving onto, actual topic: The ethnicity of the poet is much more important than the country he resides in, as it is proven in many other articles about poets such as Nizami Ganjavi, where his ethnicity is the most important factor. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 08:35, 15 May 2020 (UTC) Editing pages has obviously nothing to do with obsession, but you have been lowkey fixated towards me since I've reverted some of your non-constructive edits, even making a bizarre report against me. There's a reason I didn't reply to you in the section above, I don't want anything to do with you. You could just have asked one of my "friends" instead of me. Speaking of "friends", what did you mean by it? I'm smelling WP:ASPERSIONS but I want to hear it from yourself (you still haven't answered). Also, you do realize there was no such thing as nationality back in the 12th-century? --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:39, 15 May 2020 (UTC) I couldn't care less about you or anything you have done and am very happy that I have been able to avoid you since the report until now. By your friends, I meant LouisAragon, who, along with you have reverted edits in this page with same reasons. Getting back to topic again, ethnicity of the poet is much more important, especially in the context when the poet has spent most of his life writing poems in his mother language, Azerbaijani. Of which, the most famous one is about Azerbaijan. I'm sure if a Persian born in Azerbaijan wrote poems in Persian about Iran, you'd think that having "Persian Poet" than "Azerbaijani Poet" written in his page would be more suited. But since this is the opposite case, where it doesn't benefit Iran, you seem to have problem with it. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 14:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC) Aaaand that's a wrap. Come back when you've learned to discuss with a fellow editor in a constructive manner (and with an actual argument). Don't bother pinging me as I've blocked further notifications from you. Consider this your last warning; Cast aspersions towards me again (or anyone else for that matter) and I'll show you how a real report is made. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:22, 15 May 2020 (UTC) If you can't handle any discussions that don't go along your POV, then I guess there is no point to discuss as well. I'll just go ahead and add my change, since you've made clear the discussion is over. On side note, I love that you're still keeping up the cheap threats to try to scare people that don't agree with your POV. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 17:09, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

3O Response: I am responding to the third opinion posted today. According to MOS:CONTEXTBIO, ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. In this case, since much of the subject's work is notable within Azerbaijani literature, I think mentioning Azerbaijani in the lead sentence would be OK. An example of the lead sentence would be:

Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Behjat Tabrizi (Azerbaijani: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی, Persian: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی) (1906 – September 18, 1988), mainly known by his pen name, Shahriar (Azerbaijani: Şəhriyar, Persian: شهریار) (listen^ⓘ), was an Iranian Azerbaijani poet, who wrote in both Azerbaijani and Persian.

I think this adequately describes his Iranian citizenship by birth with his Azerbaijani ethnicity. -- LuK3 (Talk) 22:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@LuK3: Hey, thanks for the help. Could you ping the user HistoryofIran and ask him if he is fine with your 3O, as I believe he has blocked me. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 21:27, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Not a problem CuriousGolden. @HistoryofIran:, please see my 3O response above regarding the lead sentence. -- LuK3 (Talk) 21:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Go for it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Oppose. Martin Luther King Jr. is not called an "African-American" either. Shawarsh (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: African is not an ethnicity, but rather a race and I believe, most people can see what race King is. Martin Luther King Jr. didn't write poems about the people nor nature of Africa, unlike our point of discussion, Shahriyar, who spent most of his poetic life on writing poems in both Azerbaijani and Persian, mostly about Azerbaijan and etc. I find it hard to understand how you related these two men. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 07:03, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: African-American is an ethnic group. MLK was an activist who became the most visible spokesperson and leader in the Civil Rights Movement, which was a decades-long struggle by African Americans to end legalized racial discrimination, disenfranchisement and racial segregation in the United States. Shawarsh (talk) 10:25, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: So, our points seem to be the same. I'm having hard time understanding your argument. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 10:48, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: I am saying if writing in Azerbaijani makes ethnicity as important as nationality, then being "the most visible spokesperson and leader in the Civil Rights Movement" also makes it important. Then you will have no problem with changing American to African-American. Do that first, then come back and change this one too. Shawarsh (talk) 11:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: You're contradicting yourself. MLK fought for rights of black people, he wasn't doing anything regarding Africa itself. Writing African-American there and writing Iranian Azerbaijani is not same. Even then, it's mentioned multiple times in the article that he's an African-American (even though it's an obvious fact). I'm still confused about your argument. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 11:25, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: You are confused indeed.

• Africa and African-Americans are not related. They are Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa. They are not Africans.
• This is not about writing in something. Read the guideline mentioned above: "ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". MLK was notable for being "the most visible spokesperson and leader in the Civil Rights Movement".
• You can mention Shahriar's ethnicity, that is okay. But you can't change the guy's nationality from Iranian to Iranian Azerbaijani, as long as you can't change Martin Luther King Jr.'s. Go for mentioning "he was an Iranian of Azeri ethnicity." Shawarsh (talk) 12:03, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: I still don't understand how MLK is related to all of this, so I'll reply to your second and third point. The guidelines say that "ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability". In this case, for Shahriyar, it is. Changing lead sentence from Iranian to Iranian Azerbaijani doesn't change his nationality. "Iranian Azerbaijani" literally means "Iranian of Azeri ethnicity". The word represents both his Iranian nationality and Azerbaijani ethnicity. CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 12:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: since you haven't responded in 2 days, do you agree to me replacing "Iranian" with "Iranian Azerbaijani" yet, to fully represent his Iranian nationality and Azerbaijani ethnicity? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 12:30, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Change it to:

• Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Behjat Tabrizi (Azerbaijani: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی, Persian: سید محمدحسین بهجت تبریزی‎) (1906 – September 18, 1988), mainly known by his pen name, Shahriar (Azerbaijani: Şəhriyar, Persian: شهریار‎), was a notable Iranian poet. An Iranian of Azerbaijani ethnicity, he wrote in both Azerbaijani and Persian.

Shawarsh (talk) 12:42, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: What's the difference between "Iranian Azerbaijani" and "Iranian of Azerbaijani ethnicity" ? You're just making the words longer. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 15:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Iranian Azerbaijani is also related to nationality. It could be about someone from Iran and the RO Azerbaijan too. Shawarsh (talk) 16:09, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: Iranian Azerbaijani has nothing to do with nationality because there isn't a country called Iranian Azerbaijan. Iranian Azerbaijani is the short version of "Ethnic Azerbaijani with Iranian nationality". See this page: Iranian Azerbaijanis — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 16:35, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: What do you think? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 20:14, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: I think "Iranian poet of Azerbaijani ethnicity" is fine. Shawarsh (talk) 20:25, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: What is the difference with that and "Iranian Azerbaijani" ? If we add what you proposed, it'd just make the article unnecessarily long, especially when there is a shorter version of what you've proposed. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 05:28, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: ? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 15:36, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Already mentioned once. Iranian Azerbaijani also refers to dual nationals. He wasn't a citizen of the RO Azerbaijan. Iranian poet of Azerbaijani ethnicity is fine. Shawarsh (talk) 15:41, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: If there is no essential difference (which there isn't because Iranian Azerbaijani does not refer to any nationality other than Iranian), why do you think it should be the one that's longer rather than the one that is more articulate and easier to understand? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 18:03, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: What you call "longer", is only about one single word (ethnicity). I don't see it as a problem. It was my last message here.Shawarsh (talk) 18:25, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: You have failed multiple times now to explain how "Iranian Azerbaijani" and "Iranian of Azerbaijani ethnicity" are different. If it's your last message, then I see no other way to solve this than calling a 3O. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 18:51, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@LuK3: Hey, sorry to bother you again, but since you've already done a 3O here, could you help us out again? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 18:58, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

CuriousGolden and Shawarsh I still stand by my original response with adding Iranian Azerbaijanis to the lead sentence. I will cite MOS:CONTEXTBIO again, which states that ethnicity should not be mentioned in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. The fact is that the subject's ethnicity is related to their notability. Iranian Azerbaijanis, according to the article, are are Iranians of Azeri ethnicity who may speak the Azerbaijani language as their first language. The subject was Iranian by birth and Azerbaijani by ethnicity therefore adding Iranian Azerbaijani to the lead is a good trade-off. If you can not come to a compromise, I suggest either opening up a request for comment or heading over to WP:DRN and filing a report there. I hope this helps. -- LuK3 (Talk) 19:58, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Shawarsh: If you agree with the newest 3O, I'll add the change. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 12:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Do whatever you like. Shawarsh (talk) 12:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Great, then I believe this discussion is over — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 12:40, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

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